Now That's IT: Stories of MSP Success
Now that's IT: Stories of MSP Success dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in the Managed Service Provider industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
Every episode is packed with the valuable insights, practical strategies, and inspiring anecdotes that lead our guests to the transformative moment when they knew, Now, That's IT.
This podcast provides educational information about issues that may be relevant to information technology service providers.
Nothing in the podcast should be construed as any recommendation or endorsement by N-able, or as legal or any other advice.
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the podcast does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Views and opinions expressed by N-able employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of N-able or its officers and directors.
The podcast may also contain forward-looking statements regarding future product plans, functionality, or development efforts that should not be interpreted as a commitment from N-able related to any deliverables or timeframe.
All content is based on information available at the time of recording, and N-able has no obligation to update any forward-looking statements.
Now That's IT: Stories of MSP Success
Scaling with Sales: Marco La Vecchia's Proven Growth Tactics
In this episode of "Now That's IT: Stories of MSP Success," we sit down with Marco La Vecchia, the Chief Revenue Officer at Produce8, to uncover the secrets behind his remarkable success in the managed service provider (MSP) industry. From his early days at N-able to his leadership roles at AVG and Fully Managed, Marco has consistently driven growth and innovation through strategic sales initiatives.
Marco shares his journey from an aspiring professional golfer to a key player in the MSP world, providing invaluable insights into how sales can be the catalyst for scaling your business. He discusses the importance of building a strong sales culture, the traits to look for in top-performing salespeople, and the crucial role of a dedicated sales leader.
Listeners will learn about:
- The "work hard, play hard" ethos that propelled N-able to success.
- How leading with a security-first approach at AVG reshaped the MSP landscape.
- The transformative sales strategies that grew Fully Managed from a local MSP to a national powerhouse.
- The significance of aligning sales and marketing efforts to drive qualified leads and close deals.
- Marco's current venture at Produce8 and how it's set to revolutionize productivity for MSPs.
Whether you're an established MSP owner or just starting, Marco's proven growth tactics will provide you with actionable strategies to elevate your sales game and scale your business. Tune in to gain a wealth of knowledge from one of the industry's most respected leaders.
Don't miss this episode packed with expert advice and real-world examples of how effective sales tactics can lead to extraordinary growth in the MSP space.
Hosted by industry veterans, this podcast delves deep into the findings of the MSP Horizons Report, providing actionable insights to transform your IT business. Each episode features in-depth discussions with experts, thought leaders, and successful MSPs who share their experiences and strategies for navigating the ever-evolving landscape of managed services. Listen & Subscribe Wherever You Get Your Podcasts.
Get an in-person rundown on what N-able has to offer including products, insights, networking and more.
The N-able Roadshow is visiting more cities than ever before in 2024. Take a look at our first group of locations; we may be in a city near you! -> http://spr.ly/6000RsTOq
'Now that's it: Stories of MSP Success,' dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
Every episode is packed with the valuable insights, practical strategies, and inspiring anecdotes that lead our guests to the transformative moment when they knew….. Now, that's it.
This podcast provides educational information about issues that may be relevant to information technology service providers.
Nothing in the podcast should be construed as any recommendation or endorsement by N-able, or as legal or any other advice.
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the podcast does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Views and opinions expressed by N-able employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of N-able or its officers and directors.
The podcast may also contain forward-looking statements regarding future product plans, functionality, or development efforts that should not be interpreted as a commitment from N-able related to any deliverables or timeframe.
All content is based on information available at the time of recording, and N-able has no obligation to update any forward-looking statements.
One, two, three, four. There isn't a company in the world that has ever grown without salespeople. But that comes with a caveat. I do not think that MSPs should hire salespeople if they don't have a good sales leader Teaching them what they need to do, because a lot of these MSPs can't help the salesperson, and that's where I think the issue happens. A lot of times you hear that I hired a salesperson. Six months later nothing happened and the owner decides I'm going to let go of the salesperson because it's a cost. A sales leader somebody that's done it before, that has the DNA, that knows how to build pipeline of qualified opportunities that a salesperson can work, help them with marketing strategies, put a whole entire system in place that allows the MSP to be successful. To me that's a winning strategy and I think the good MSPs have done that and they're the ones that continue to grow and excel and acquire because they have the revenue streams to support it. The smaller ones continue to struggle.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Now that's it stories of MSP success, where we dive into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn managed services into the thriving sector. It is today Marco Lovecchia, current chief revenue officer at Produce8, a work analytics platform for managed service providers, sales leader and one-time scratch golfer. Welcome to the Now that's it podcast, marco. Thanks for having me. How are you today Doing so well? Awesome, I'm super excited to have you on the pod. Talk a little bit about your story and what the MSP space was like early on, and different stories about some Enable folks. So thanks again, marco, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:All right. So you are in high school. Your dream was not to be a head of revenue at some IT firm down the line.
Speaker 1:You had different aspirations, right, I did. Yeah, I started playing golf when I was 12 years old and my mom put me in golf to get me out of trouble while I was growing up. So I really enjoyed it, had a passion for it. As I was going through high school, that was my ambition. I wanted to be a professional golfer.
Speaker 2:That's great. That is not an easy profession to be successful at or even to get into, and it's great when you're in high school. You might be at the top two or 3% of your high school. To get an opportunity in college, which you did have until you got injured, right. That's rare. But then from there it's a crapshoot, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough, like, probably the best thing happened to me was probably getting injured. You know, you and I had talked about how I tore my ACL and I had a scholarship, a full ride at a school in the US and Ashland University in Ohio and, being a Canadian, that was a big thing. I kept on playing soccer and tore my ACL and so that dream and those aspirations quickly went out the window, kept on playing golf for a number of years and went to university and college in Canada and then got into the workforce and worked at one startup and then I joined Frank Coletti and Mike Cullen at Enable.
Speaker 2:Well, you were a poli-sci major right, but you didn't want to go into government.
Speaker 1:No, like I live in Ottawa, canada, so capital of the country, and especially if you're studying political science, probably your next job is going to be some job in the government, and that really wasn't what I wanted to do. So I studied marketing, after business marketing, and started working with high-tech companies in the Ottawa area. Through the 90s and early 2000s, ottawa was known as Silicon Valley North, and there's still a lot of high-tech companies and software companies that are being developed.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about how you got introduced to Enable. So you mentioned Frank and Mike. How did you know those guys? What was the circle like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I didn't know Mike and Frank at the time. Actually, it was a friend of mine that was working there and she had mentioned to me that you got to come and join this great company, great staff, amazing culture, and so I went in and had an interview with Mike and Frank and we hit it off right away.
Speaker 2:What was that first conversation like with Mike? I know we talked a little bit about it.
Speaker 1:So I had a really long interview with Frank. We talked about a number of different things. And Frank says to me he goes, I'm going to let you have a meeting with Mike. And so Mike called me in his office, we sat down and within 15 or 20 minutes Mike's like okay, you got the job. So that's how we started.
Speaker 1:What was the culture like at Enable back then? It was work hard, play hard. You know we had a lot of fun. I don't think the company would be where it is today with the focus in terms of really kind of what we brought to the sales team at that point in time. And you know, early on, when you were kind of talking about enabled technologies and stuff like that, it was all brand new. Right, like you know, I was telling one of the MSPs at the event today is that you know, in the early days when we were selling remote monitoring and management, we were doing off a powerpoint presentation. We couldn't even do demos, we just had to get them to believe in what we were doing. And you know we joked around internally that we were trying to sell msps the dream and teaching them about recurring revenue.
Speaker 2:And it worked, obviously for sure talk about what it was like working with mike colin in those early days oh, mike, mike was something right like he, I think over the years.
Speaker 1:Mike definitely softened up Early on. Mike was, you know, he really drove people and drove the team, but was very fair in terms of how you work with him and all that kind of stuff. I mentioned to you before that. A lot of the principles that I use today in my work and in my career, a lot of stuff have been things that I learned from Mike and conversations with him.
Speaker 1:A funny story that Mike and I had one day was he calls me in his office one day and says to me he goes, how's the golf game? And I said to him you know, Mike, it's not bad. I said you know, we're still shooting one or two over par these days, but you know, I'll try and see if I can get back to being, you know, scratch. And he looks at me and he goes. Look, he goes. If you're still a scratch golfer in a year from now, he goes, I'm gonna fire you. So that way that was kind of his way to say you know, let's stop playing as much golf as you're doing and focus on your career and your job, and then we'll be good and so we did that, he definitely softened up because about a year ago I think, he called me up and said, hey, you're a pretty decent golfer, aren't you, chris?
Speaker 2:And they said, yeah, and he goes. I need you to go out to this customer and play a couple rounds of golf with them. So he's definitely went to the MSP. That's definitely a change for sure. Mike had such an influence on so many people sort of in the channel in the MSP industry. So many people that did know him give him a lot of credit for what became of the MSP industry. It it was very much a enterprise play at the time until Enable came along and Mike got out there and said, guys, you small guys, you can do this. And so you guys, he was definitely an inspiration to that sales team too, right, I mean you guys were carrying the torch for him. I mean he was out there preaching and you guys were saying, look, this is the future, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think the thing about Mike and what he brought was people really believed in what he was talking about. He articulated himself in a way that he could have a great conversation with a big MSP of three, 400 people and he can bring himself down and talk to an organization as five employees and explain to them what they need to do with their business, and not everybody can have that level of conversation right. So he was very articulate the way he did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you've seen the MSP industry evolve over the years. But what was it like back when you were at Enable? I mean, what were folks using for monitoring and patch and management?
Speaker 1:Oh, early on I mean it was a dog's breakfast, like they had all disparaged tools and there's some, if you remember, like Silverback, like GFI, some of the old solutions and technologies that are out there. But what I think it's really nice is just to see the dominance that Enable has had over the last number of years in the marketplace. It's quite satisfying.
Speaker 2:We were definitely a major player back in those early days.
Speaker 1:Oh, like we, you know the way, the way that we behaved and the way that you know that we just kind of drove the activity and and you know our channel strategy, you know the marketing strategy that we brought to the table and all that kind of stuff. It was nice to see that's great.
Speaker 2:So enable was sold and it was time for you to sort of find your next gig, and then, instead of going in a completely different direction, you stayed on the Southport side of the house. Talk about that. Talk about your AVG days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so after Enable, I went over to AVG, obviously a big security player in the marketplace. It was a very interesting kind of play because I could see that security was going to be really something that was going to impact the MSP space over the next little while and still is today. While we were there, we did an acquisition of Level Platforms. The whole entire strategy in terms of building it out and leading with security was really a little bit different, where a lot of the RMM vendors were leading with remote monitoring and management. So I think we were changing the narrative a little bit in terms of what we were doing over there. We had dominance across South America it was a very popular product and play across Europe as well. Obviously, dealing in Canada and the US, you had your dominant players like Enable, and we can never overtake them, but we had a lot of fun there. I learned definitely a lot of things by big companies and how they did things.
Speaker 2:Leading with security was definitely ahead of its time. Nowadays, everyone has to or they're going to be left in the four winds, but so this is what's kind of interesting is Mark Scott, former founder of Enable. He had an MSP and you had an opportunity to join him after your AVG days, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I was still working at AVG and Mark and I we had a coffee one day and he said love for you to come and work with me again, because we worked with each other early days at Enable and it was just really about taking a local MSP that we had in Ottawa and really kind of grow it and go national across the country and start doing some different things. And so I thought about it for a while and then I just thought the opportunity was really interesting because always being on the channel side and on the vendor side and then jumping over to the MSP side was extremely different. So I took what I learned from the vendor side, what I learned from Mike and Frank over the years and all that kind of stuff, and implemented it in fully managed and we were really successful. We were early on when I joined the company about 40 employees, about $15 million and we sold the company a couple of years ago to TELUS and we were just over 500 employees and we sold that company for about $180 million.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's fantastic. You know, what I love about your fully managed story is I'm hearing this from some of the really large MSPs, but you guys weren't necessarily that large at the time. But you took sort of the approach of building Fully Managed like it was an enterprise company, right, and really a sales-driven, like you built out a major sales side. Talk a little bit about that, because I always hear MSPs say, yeah, sales, it's owner-driven, we're owner-led sales. But that wasn't the approach for Fully Managed.
Speaker 1:No owner-driven, owner-led sales, but that wasn't the approach for Fully Managed no, I think. Very quickly we implemented an enterprise sales structure, not only in terms of number of people that we brought in, but just in terms of how we went to market. Aggressive focused on driving, marketing, qualified leads, building pipeline closing like month-end sales, all of those types of things and obviously having a lot of fun doing it, but it's extremely challenging. As you know, the MSP space is a difficult one, and I think it wasn't only just about the fact that we were doing managed services, but we brought other solutions into the mix that we felt that would help grow our business as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys, you also did some acquisitions, right, correct? What was that like? To bring, you know, maybe less mature or smaller MSPs into the fully managed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we brought companies in that we felt that would fit into our business extremely well. So you know, that was always one thing that Mark did really well from the standpoint of like, as he's speaking with these organizations and companies, you're also trying to understand it Like, maybe they're a good revenue mix but like, culture wise, are they going to fit in? I think it's safe to say that the acquisitions we did, they all went extremely well just because they really had the same type of DNA that we had. They would adopt our systems and processes that we had had as a business, and standardizing on tools, the technologies that we use, the sales processes, the marketing, all of that kind of stuff were all kind of important in terms of what we brought into the mix Excellent.
Speaker 2:Talk to us a little bit about. What does an enterprise sales team actually look like?
Speaker 1:Oh, are you talking more about like the persona?
Speaker 2:of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, there's a bit of you know, whether female or male like a bravado in terms of like how they look at themselves and how they feel and just kind of how they talk about solutions and how confident they are on calls and reaching out to people. You can put them in front of any kind of executive into a large organization and they feel extremely comfortable. I would say, like when you take a look at people that want to learn, people that are easy to coach that's something that Mike explained to me earlier on. You know, when we were hiring people, he used to always say to me if you feel that somebody is coachable, then you can really kind of teach them anything and they can be extremely successful. If they're uncoachable, you're going to have a lot of problems with them, and I learned that over time. So anytime I'm hiring somebody, that's always one thing I always have in the back of my mind Do we think that we can coach this person and help them out?
Speaker 2:That's great, maybe a lot of our audience or maybe smaller MSPs that haven't hired their first salesperson. Obviously, the owner's been out there knocking on doors, talking to people, but what advice would you give to a smaller MSP about when the right time is to bring sales into the organization and maybe the process of how to incent sales right, because I think there's always that risk of well, if I pay my sales person too much, that's going to hurt the business, but that's not always the case. I mean you want your salespeople to be paid well because that means you are doing well, I think every MSP should have salespeople, but that comes with a caveat.
Speaker 1:I do not think that MSPs should hire salespeople if they don't have a good sales leader teaching them what they need to do, because a lot of these MSPs can't help the salesperson, and that's where I think the issue happens.
Speaker 1:A lot of times you'll hear them that I hired a salesperson. Six months later nothing happened and the owner decides I'm going to let go of the salesperson because it's a cost. A sales leader, somebody that's done it before, that has the DNA, that knows how to build a pipeline of qualified opportunities that a salesperson can work, help them with marketing strategies, put a whole entire system in place that allows the MSP to be successful. To me that's a winning strategy and I think the good MSPs have done that and they're the ones that continue to grow and excel and acquire and because they have the revenue streams to support it. The smaller ones continue to struggle and I always say this like there isn't a company in the world that has ever grown without salespeople. So it's a pretty simple equation to figure out. If you want to grow your business, you need the right type of team structure in place.
Speaker 2:And I know you didn't ever necessarily fill the marketing role because you were sales, but you went to school for it, and so how did marketing play in at least the fully managed days? I mean, was the sales team set up to be successful, because the types of leads that were coming in were pretty warm? Just what did that engine look like of sales and marketing working together?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my background allowed us. I always kind of look at sales a little bit different in terms of assessing the market, who we're going after, what's the right type of messaging that's going to resonate with them. It's kind of like what we're doing over here with Produce 8 is speaking to MSPs to see, hey, listen, do you understand what we do? And so I always try and put my marketing hat on first, and then I think that helps me out with the sale as well. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Talk about what did the ideal client profile look like at Fully Managed from maybe the time you started to when you left? I mean, did Fully Managed go upmarket? What did that feel like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think early on if I separate our MSP business into three buckets we had our SMB business for managed services. So think of anywhere between five and 100 employees. Ideally our sweet spot I would say it was between 20 and 50 employees. Right across Canada. We had a number of sales reps that focused on that area of business. We also did enterprise level service desk. So that's another acquisition that we did and those were large monthly recurring revenue deals where we had some contracts that were 60, 70,000 a month where we handled level one support tickets and that was an interesting business. It allowed us to kind of penetrate into the mid-market enterprise space. And when we did that, that's where we got introduced to ServiceNow and then we created a ServiceNow practice that grew considerably for us, was very well received in the marketplace, and so those three unique business models really kind of helped us kind of drive over on average $100,000 a month in monthly recurring revenue.
Speaker 2:That ServiceNow business? Definitely, I mean it had to take you up market right Because those are definitely the enterprise players that have an ServiceNow practice. So did the sales team? Did you have sales team that were specialized in each of those different ICPs, or was everybody sort of have the ability to sell?
Speaker 1:No, we had different sales teams. We had one sales team that handled the main services piece and then we had one sales team that handled the managed services piece and then we had another sales team that handled ServiceNow and the enterprise service desk. The DNAs of both of those the reps were different. They were unique. They were just different in terms of how we felt that they would kind of fit into one model or the next. The conversation that you'd be having on your SMB managed services are very different than what you'd be having around service now.
Speaker 2:We talked a little bit about the characteristics that you were looking for when you would hire, and we definitely talked about hiring a good leader. How about the opportunity for folks that were already part of Fully Managed to sort of jump into sales? We always sort of look at internally to go, wow, that personality, that characteristic, that coachable trait, that's there. We ought to see if they're interested to come over to the sales team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we would have those conversations. Even when I joined fully managed, we had a sales team. But where it didn't necessarily fit into the future of what the business was going to look like was the transition from what I call like a hardware sales rep to somebody that sold managed services right and more of a solution sell versus a product sell. And in order to kind of change the revenue mix into the business we had to kind of change the people because a lot of the times the people that sold the hardware couldn't necessarily sell managed services.
Speaker 2:What advice would you give to MSPs on how to incent the sales teams so that they can be successful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, first off, what I would say is, if you're an MSP and you can't figure out a comp plan, I know that Enable has great programs on their success teams that can teach them and show them different models and plans.
Speaker 1:The model that we had was we would pay them out on the first month of the recurring revenue on the deal. That was always the easiest one, the sales reps loved them, and then we would have bonus structure as well, so if they overproduced, then they had some sort of guaranteed bonus they would make if they overproduced on their quotas and stuff like that. So I was never fearful, and people that used to work for me over there will always tell you. I always believed that I wanted my reps to make a lot of money, because if they're making a lot of money, I know that they're going to sell even more, and so it creates that environment. Again, something that we learned that enable is like making sure that the guys are successful and they can live a good quality life was important to us and it's very important to me as well.
Speaker 2:That's great, marco. So you guys went from 40 to almost 500 employees, and then you sold to Telus?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did. What was that like? So I know trying to sell the business wasn't easy, right. Like there was a lot of work. Mark did a phenomenal job. Joel Abramson, who's their CEO of Produce8, he was really kind of like the face of putting fully managed out there in the marketplace. I would say, you know, mark Scott's a dealmaker, right. So to kind of go out and sell to a huge brand like Telus you know it's like Verizon in the US, right so for them to kind of take a look at fully managed and saying this is what we need to bring into our business. We have thousands upon thousands of end user customers that can use managed services. Obviously they were leading the way in the Canadian marketplace. So it was really what I would say kind of putting a stamp on, kind of what we did as a business but the whole entire business model as a whole, that's great.
Speaker 2:What was next for you after the fully managed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so after so we had to stay on board for two years and then the last few months we were having kind of discussions with them, and then I was having discussions with Mark and Joel on this new produce eight venture that they're kind of building out with Chris Day. I think the opportunity that poses itself in front of us right now was just too hard for me to say. You know, let's go do this. So that's kind of what I decided to do and join the company february 1st of this year so you got the band back together, talk, talk.
Speaker 2:Band of misfits. I think these are the major players they are I think we had luis heraldo on earlier and of course chris day comes his name comes up.
Speaker 1:So these are all the big names, like yeah, like they really are, like all of these guys, like when you take a look at mark and chris and you know mike cullen and you got frank out there and you got dan wensley and you got lewis and and rob ray and all you know like these are the players in the marketplace, these are the guys that get it so what is produce eight all about?
Speaker 2:I want to give you a chance to tell everybody yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So really excited about Produce8. You know, as you mentioned, it's a work analytics app. So we're in the market of working with businesses MSPs right now to take a look at their business and help them increase productivity. So we're bringing a new solution in technology to the marketplace that nobody's having these conversations in regards right. Like we talked about this a little bit earlier on it's. You know, how are MSPs going to see this? And so the idea of what we're trying to do is kind of help businesses, with everybody either working remotely or some hybrid model and all that kind of stuff is help them increase productivity.
Speaker 1:We noticed that productivity is dropping, especially if you take a look at an MSP what's happening on the support desk, how people are interacting. People are being burnt out. Our solution will give them insights into how they're operating on a daily basis. So what's really interesting is you take a look at our product. It helps people from an individual level. It helps you from a management level, so you can have an idea in terms of what's going on and then, overall, the whole entire business. So, as an example, we just came out with a new feature that will allow businesses to understand how much time they're spending in meetings and what those meetings are costing them. We're tying in calls, we're tying in calendars. It's a collaboration tool that will help everybody streamline how they operate on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:So really, excited about it. That's exciting. So you're here at Enable Empower. You daily basis. So really excited about it, that's exciting. So you're here at Enable Empower. You've been talking to a lot of MSPs about this, about the product.
Speaker 1:What's the feedback? Feedback has actually been extremely positive. Good to see it's. You know, as I was coming here to the event and we are speaking to a lot of MSPs, you know we're doing probably 30, 40 meetings a month where a new startup that just started up really kind of selling this three, four months ago. Coming to this event was really about having those conversations, seeing what messaging is resonating and what makes sense. The feedback that I'm getting is this is perfect for what we need. In the next 45 to 60 days, we're going to be launching a partner program. Ask what the MSPs want. They want to consume the product themselves so that they can try and help their business and increase productivity. It's something that they know their customers are asking for. We're going to be launching a new partner program in May and the idea around this is that our partners are going to be able to go and resell this to their end user customers.
Speaker 2:That's great. So it sounds to me like, if I ask you, what's next? It's to grow this right to, to help build, produce its offering and and can continue to expand it. But how about for you personally, I mean you. You've been in in the channel for a long time. You played in the msp space for a long time. What are some of the personal goals that you have?
Speaker 1:you know, maybe, maybe in the future I would say personal goals, like if it pertains to produce aid, is to really kind of create the next unit corner in the marketplace. I think it's positioned extremely well for it's a different type of solution that MSPs would be utilizing and selling right, so majority of them are. You know, they're all tied into RMM and security and backup and security and backup, data, data recovery and stuff like that. But bringing in produce aid into the mix and helping them kind of like drive those new recurring revenue streams, I think that's kind of what excites me in terms of what I think we can be in the marketplace.
Speaker 2:I warned you I was going to ask you this. This is the Now that's it podcast, so I want to ask you, marco, when did you know? Now that's it?
Speaker 1:Oh boy, I thought about this one for a while. I think really it's the people, right, it's the people that I work with. When you're working with teams and and new people that are coming into the industry in the space and all that kind of stuff, and you see that you can help them. They can go out and buy their first home you know their cars and all that kind of stuff and start living good lives and people thanking you for their careers and what they have in life. That's kind of when I know that you know what, like, we've done well so far. So it's always been about the people.
Speaker 2:That's great, marco I thank you so much for being here. Um, you're as genuine as everybody said you are and, like I said, in in an easy clone, an easy uh doppelganger, for I think you're very close. You guys have that Italian-Canadian vibe going. So keep up the good work. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, it's great.